Kyrsten Sinema associates tied to Hamas-linked CAIR and other MB front groups: Part 1

| October 5 2012

On Saturday September 29, 2012, Kyrsten Sinema (the Democrat candidate for the newly created 9th Congressional district in Arizona) had a fundraiser event in Tempe at the home of Hassan Elsaad. The event was co-hosted by Mohamed El-Sharkawy a recent Board President of CAIR – Arizona. Voters in the 9th Congressional District, and across Arizona, might be interested to learn more about the background of these two important supporters of Kyrsten Sinema’s campaign.

For a sense of context, it is important to note that the FBI has cut all ties with Hamas-linked CAIR at both the national and local levels across the nation as a result of the findings of a 15-year FBI investigation of the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HFL), the largest Islamic charity in the U.S. at that time. Ghassan Elashi, founder of HLF and the Texas branch of CAIR, was one of five defendants found guilty of giving more than $12 million to support the Palestinian militant group Hamas, a U.S. designated terrorist organization since 1995. Elashi was sentenced to 65 years in prison for this crime.

The Investigative Project on Terrorism, May 7, 2009, posted an article explaining the concerns that the FBI had regarding their relations with Hamas-linked CAIR considering the scurrilous intentions CAIR present to our nation. See excerpt from article below:

“Evidence from the Hamas-support trial of the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) placed CAIR founders Omar Ahmad and Nihad Awad in a group called the Palestine Committee. Internal documents show the committee was created by the Muslim Brotherhood to advance the Hamas cause politically and financially in the United States.”

Disturbingly, Nihad Awad is currently the listed Executive Director for CAIR – National Headquarters. There’s more, from this Fox News article, January 30, 2009.

“Prosecutors identified CAIR’s chairman emeritus, Omar Ahmad, as an unindicted co-conspirator in that trial, and Special Agent Lara Burns testified that CAIR was a front group for radical organizations operating in the U.S.”

“An official at the FBI’s headquarters in Washington confirmed to FOX News that his office directed FBI field offices across the country to cut ties with local branches of CAIR.”

It would appear that Kyrsten Sinema is either unaware of these connections, or has no problem accepting campaign donations from individuals like Mohamed El-Sharkawy and Hassan Elsaad.

Let’s look into Hassan Elsaad’s associations…

Elsaad supported Akram Musa Abdallah, a Muslim convicted of lying to the FBI about fundraising activities for Hamas-linked HLF: Organizations believed to be front groups for the Muslim Brotherhood.

“Abdallah, who pleaded not guilty to the indictment, reportedly disappeared for about six months some time in 2006. In January 2007, the FBI raided Abdallah’s house and left with two vans full of evidence.” Anti-Defamation League, August 26, 2008.

Abdallah was eventually convicted on May 6, 2009 and sentenced to 18 months in prison on March 4, 2010 for lying to FBI authorities over his involvement in fundraising for the HFL in the Phoenix metropolitan area between 1994 and 1997. This story has been widely reported in multiple media sources. Read posts from The Investigative Project on Terrorism and The Dallas Morning News.

Read actual case documents here and here.

In Akram Musa Abdallah’s own words:

I, Akram Musa Abdallah, knowingly and willfully made a false, fraudulent, and fictitious material statement to special agents of the FBI…At the time of my interviews, I knew the (HLF) was a Specially Designated Terrorist organization.  I also knew that when I was interviewed, the HLF and its officers were pending trial in the Northern District of Texas for crimes including providing material support to a foreign terrorist organization”. 

See entire document here.

Knowing all of these facts, in addition to “what else he knew” about Akram Musa Abdallah over the past 20 years of being acquainted, Hassan Elsaad went out of his way to write a glorifying, supportive letter to the sentencing judge, Honorable Neil V. Wake.  Elsaad requested for leniency due to hardships that prison would bring upon his family.

One must wonder whether Hassan Elsaad was concerned about the hardships that violent terrorist attacks by Hamas would bring to American citizens across this country when writing this letter.  Read actual letter here posted on page(s) 6-7.

Kyrsten Sinema’s connection with these individuals does not mean that she condones the activities of terrorists or their sympathizers. It does, however, at least raise a question of judgement.

More to follow . . .  [Updated]

Part Two:  Kyrsten Sinema Addresses SB1070, the Border and comments by Gabriela Saucedo Mercer with Muslim Community

95 comments
Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

One item is now fully understood for me. Why would Kyrsten Sinema propose revoking the death penalty (something in general agreeable to me, although not necessary) right now?  I mean it has ZERO chance of passage, just like Texas. So why squander whatever political capital you might have on something like that? Here's my theory. She has seen what PhoenixLaw is like & has written a bill that will likely lengthen his lifespan.  That way she'll better retain his support. Is her proposal entitled "the PhoenixLaw preservation bill"?

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

@phoenixlaw Pathetic I might be, but unlike you, I answer questions and discuss matters. Why cannot you do so? Are you LACKING COURAGE?

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

As said, Islam to me is a perfectly fine faith, but Hamas is not. Incompatible to me are my religion and a party that has as an accepted position the worship of death as the highest good. To me that is unacceptable, no matter what the tax positions might be. Very likely, someone will contact Ms Sinema to ensure that she will say Hamas is inconsistent with her values and she will do her best to expel from party leadership positions anyone who, like PhoenixLaw, appears to support Hamas. PhoenixLaw can worship death as he wishes, but I do not want to be part of an entity with leadership possessing such positions. The right of parties to make such choices was established when the Republican party was permitted by Federal court to exclude David Duke as a gubernatorial candidate.

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @phoenixlaw You are NOT a Jew hater. Rather, simply from your statements it is reasonable to infer that you have no real problem with a law stating that all the Jews will be executed. Also, none of the Muslim nations complained about the 3,000,000 killed to advance the interests of God in Bangladesh? Why is that? Why is it that no objection to that event occurred while Israel/Palestine/local conflicts on behalf of the Palestinians, which consumed less than 50,000 Palestinian lives & roughly the same number of Jewish lives, generate Holocaust comparisons with amazing regularity? This perplexed me until I re read the Hamas Charter.

 

The Slogan of the Islamic Resistance Movement:

Article Eight:

Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.

 

_________

 

Now that slogan does not say "death of the follower of Islam." It merely says death.  So death, of either the infidel, likely much more so than the Muslim is the highest goal by this non-canonical expression.

 

Hence, it is clear that the 3,000,000 deaths were the highest goal to these individuals.  Because Isreal does not worship death in the same way. What we Jews is thought precisely to be awful to these, to me, quite odd Muslims. 

 

15See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

17But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

19This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

________

 

If I believed as Hamas (& apparently you too) believe, the first thing I would love is to kill the Jews, who somehow failed to recognize death was of far greater value. It would be not prejudice against the Jews, but denial in my true love of death & slaughter, the essence of life, it appears. So, once again, it is vital that the Jews be killed to Hamas, not because of a lack of probity, but because of insufficient love of death.

 

Your thoughts?

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @phoenixlaw I never said simply opposing Israel means anything at all. Rather I spoke with you, provided you multiple opportunities to clarify your position & then rendered a conclusion.  Here's a question for you. Do you think there should be a law to criminalizes criticism of Mohammed (PBUH) ?  

RobertUnferth
RobertUnferth

I worked for David Sxhapira against Sinema in the primary.  I was very unhappy with Sinema's win over David in August, and I've done nothing to support Sinema since.  This kind of delusional attack changes my mind on that score.  I'll start carrying Sinema literature tomorrow.  

 

Jews and Arabs must live in non-violent co-existence, and this pathological ranting does not further that necessity.  There are at least three people posting here who  need psychological help, which I know they won't get.  The consequences are not good.

 

And, what's with the Arab name? Reminds me of blackface.

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @phoenixlaw You are a Jew-hater because you support Hamas; you are a Jew-hater because you deny Israel's right to exist. By supporting those who call for the murder of Jews and the annihilation of Israel, you are their accomplice. Don't be coy.

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

What is fascinating is that PheonixLaw never says he is against legislation that would have the government slaughter all the Jews. Think about all the opportunity he has had to say this. It's too late now.  Sort of like Don Giovanni.  When the Commendatore gives him that chance, he refuses & down to Hades he goes. Here's a great version; both Mr. Ramey & MR. Moll are exquisite.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK1_vm0FMAU

 

 

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

Thank you SO much for calling attention to this!!! Kyrsten Sinema is in bed with our Moslem enemies.

Ishmael_137
Ishmael_137

Though it's now not PC to do so, judging a politician by the company kept is  as good advice now as when Machiavelli gave it in the 16th Century. CAIR was founded by members of the Muslim Brotherhood (burners of Christian churches, killers of ambassadors), is linked to Hamas, condones the murders of Jews and calls for the destruction of Israel. CAIR's national director has stated his goal is to shepherd the end of American government and ensure its replacement by a system "more sharia compliant." The organization plays a key role in hobbling the government's ability to stop terrorists within the US, and it daily works to silence its critics (even Muslim ones), by any means necessary. CAIR also has an active espionage network, part of which is concerned with infiltration at all levels of government; subversion is also part of its goal, whether by co-opting naive individuals from the left (a category which might include Sinema), playing on misplaced sympathies, or threatening or blackmailing reluctant allies. If Kyrsten Sinema is intent on crawling into bed with America's enemies for the sake of her career, perhaps she should remember the maxim that applies to all ill-yoked bedmates...she has to sleep sometime.

phoenixlaw
phoenixlaw

Israel has illegally occupied Palestine for more than 45 years.  During this time, Israel has methodically and systematically stolen Palestinian land on which it has built illegal settlements, in violation of international law.  Every US President, Democratic and Republican, for the last 40 years has called these settlements illegal and the main impediment to a lasting peace. These settlements and the Israelis' brutal treatment of the Palestinians have been the object of more than 80 UN resolutions.  More than 45% of the land designated as Palestine under the UN Partition Plan has now been taken illegally by Israel.If a foreign army had been occupying Phoenix for more than 45 years and forcing Phoenicians off their land to build settlements for their own citizens, in violation of international law, do you think that there would be Phoenicians fighting back in any way that they could?  Would you label them terrorists?  This is exactly why Hamas was formed.

 

And, no, I am not Kirsten Sinema. And yes, it is you who are clueless.

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @RobertUnferth How curious that as soon as Sinema is exposed as a supporter of our and Israel's Moslem enemies, you decide she is a good candidate after all.

You say that Jews and Arabs should live in non-violent coexistence. Go tell it to the Moslems who say that they will never live in non-violent coexistence with Israel and the Jews. Their sacred texts prohibit non-violent coexistence with any non-Moslems, and they have a special animus toward Jews.

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @Abdul Ameer He is not a Jew hater. Rather he is a believer in the same faith that Mr. Mashaal possesses, that the final days of glory require the death of the Jews. Think about it. Good day.

HMarques
HMarques

 @Abdul Ameer You are welcome.  Part 2 of this story will look into comments made by Sinema to this group of Muslims and her lack of understanding of the threat of Jihad and the desire by many in the Muslim community in establishing Sharia Law in this country.   Or as you put it, she may very well be aware of these desires and is sympathetic to it!

HMarques
HMarques

Thank you for sharing your insight on this issue.  You are right on the mark.  Either Sinema is naive and going along to get along with anyone in the Muslim community to further her career or she is knowingly sleeping with the enemy; Either way, we should be concerned about electing her to Congress.  Certainly it is not PC to criticize any aspect of the Muslim communities existence or intentions.  We all become "islamaphobes" to criticize any Muslim organization or Muslim in general, even if you suspect terrorists associations.  There is growing evidence that "many" muslim organizations who claim peaceful intentions, but plan not to integrate into our society but to dominate our society and ultimately shoving Sharia Law down our throats.  As Americans we need to say NO to any form of Sharia in our society.  It is not compatible with our form of a representive Republic.  There is nothing discriminating about stopping Sharia implementation.  We have to speak out against any movement towards Sharia acceptance in our courts.

dleeper47
dleeper47 moderator

 @phoenixlaw 

I'm late to this thread, but you might look at Eric Hoffer's piece on this subject from 1968.  It still rings true today.  It's at: http://www.factsandlogic.org/outstanding_hoffer.html  

 

Hoffer's short piece begins:  "The Jews are a peculiar people: things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews. Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people, and there is no refugee problem. Russia did it, Poland and Czechoslovakia did it. Turkey threw out a million Greeks and Algeria a million Frenchman. Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese and no one says a word about refugees. But in the case of Israel, displaced Arabs have become eternal refugees. Everyone insists that Israel must take back every single Arab."  

 

Furthermore, if you, phoenixlaw, really believe captured lands do not belong to the captors and must be returned to the original inhabitants, then shouldn't you pack up your Phoenix home and return your property to Mexico?  The land you live on was captured in the Mexican-American war.

 

Better yet, rather than return your property to Mexico, return it to a descendant of the Native American tribes from whom Mexico stole it.   Your best choice might be a descendant of the Hohokam people who occupied your property circa 1450 AD.  Isn't it time you offered them some justice and compassion?

 

If you're going to talk the talk, why not walk the walk that goes with it?  Or do you have some other agenda?

 

And finally, if you really and truly believe that lands belongs to their long-ago inhabitants rather than their latest captors, then why not back Israel?  Jews have lived continuously in Israel for more than 3000 years.

HMarques
HMarques

 @phoenixlaw Who the heck are you anyway?  Why not disclose your "real" name as I and others have on this feed.  What do you have to hide?  You are a coward?  Bring it on!  Again, stay tuned for part 2...Can't wait to see you spin the truth then on behalf of Sinema and radical islamic extremism.  

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @phoenixlaw Let's assume you are one of Ms. Sinema's legal attack dogs, set loose on an unsuspecting public. Could have some fun with this anyways. Change the topic a bit. Say instead of provisioning legal services to Ms. Sinema, you were representing a most interesting home grown terrorist, a Sgt. Anthony Peden, alleged, not only to have plotted, in his military capacity to attempt to assassinate President Obama, but also to be involved with a double homicide, a young man & a young woman. The unfortunate young boy is really out of luck, it would seem, for a Pfc. Michael Burnett, is going to turn on him! The story is here: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/fear_militia_georgia.php

So what the heck do you do as an attorney? Would you discuss the murder charges head on? Maybe. But what you really would want to do, you see, is pound the table & change the topic. So you go ahead & discuss, Pfc. Burnett's desire to rape your client & the decedents. Plus, the defendants were impressionable youngsters, grievously influenced by the nasty Republican campaign strategy. Who would not want to kill the President under such circumstances?:  Fox news, not these guys, is responsible!

 

Same thing here. Instead of dealing with the rather serious charges, namely that Ms. Sinema is likely connected to organized crime (not a trivial matter by any means), you discuss Palestinian rights. Imagine that!  Unfortunately, it is indeed recognized by persons evaluating Ms. Sinema that, even if Hamas were not guilty in the slightest of ANY terrorist activity, the Sheik Rahman crime family was, specifically the first WTC bombing.

 

Moreover, your client seems to have instructed you not to appear to give a dang about the life of people who are Jews.  For you see, when a document like the Hamas constitution blames Jews for the first two world wars & all revolutions, including the French Revolution, the solution becomes obvious--Kill Jews like me to obtain world peace. I do not want to be killed simply because I am a Jew. 

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @phoenixlaw She seems to want to kill Jews sometimes. That's the problem, you see.  Also, she's associated with a convicted felon from the first world trade center, a Ms. Lynne Stewart.

 

 

Ishmael_137
Ishmael_137

 @phoenixlaw The land in question has never belonged to any modern national entity, not the Ottoman Empire which lost it, nor Jordan which held it in name but not by rule. The only claim to it is held by Israel, by conquest in 1948, by Israel has shown forbearance, even toward the squatters illegally occupying it. You're of course free to stand on the side of dictators, murderers and advocates of genocide, and against the only democracy in the Middle East that guarantees freedom to all its citizens...but be sure to wash the blood from your hands.

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @Abdul Ameer  @RobertUnferth They might indeed be able to live in co-existence, but one must be prepared for the possibility that the party that desires all Jews be killed will win.  One item to think about is whether or not people would then be willing to have all those Jews enter the US. My experience in asking this question has been that most asked simply would want them to die. 

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @Mitchell Wachtel No, Mitchell, YOU think about how someone who wants to murder Jews does not hate Jews. You are playing word games. Yes, he is a believer in the same faith that Mashaal possesses. That faith is Islam, and Islam teaches Jew-hatred. This is really not so complicated.

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @HMarques While we are exposing Sinema's anti-Semitism and treason, we should also contact her opponent, Vernon Parker, to see where he stands on the Muslim Brotherhood.

phoenixlaw
phoenixlaw

 @Mitchell Wachtel First, to set the record straight - I am in no way connected to Ms. Sinema.  I have never met her and certainly do not work for her or anyone connected to her. 

 

My intent in my initial reply was to rebut the statement thrown out that Hamas is a threat to the United States.  Certainly in their initial Charter, Hamas was blatantly anti-Semitic.  However, in the last 5 or 6 years, Hamas leadership has publicly stated a willingness to accept a two-state solution and has offered a long-term truce with Israel if Israel agreed to return to its 1967 borders and grant the right of return to all Palestinian refuges. 

 

Hamas was formed as a way for the Palestinians to fight back against the Israeli occupation which has been ongoing since 1967.  As I stated above, if Phoenix had been occupied by a foreign country for more than 45 years, and that foreign country was forcing Phoenicians of their land to build illegal settlements for their own citizens, don't you think that there would be Phoenicians fighting back in any way that they could?  Would these people be labeled terrorists?

phoenixlaw
phoenixlaw

 @Ishmael_137 UN Security Council Resolution 446, adopted on March 22, 1979, among others, seems to say otherwise:

 

"Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem (the West Bank, East Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights)."  The policies and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive , just and lasting peace in the Middle East."  The Israeli settlements have also been held to be in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

 

So, instead of just making stuff up that sounds good to fit your argument, perhaps you should learn what the reality of the situation is, based on the UN and international law.

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @Abdul Ameer  @RobertUnferth That's also true of many Christians called fundamentalists as respects the bible, not to mention Orthodox Jews. This notwithstanding, all interpret their religious texts by taking into account time & situation of the original writing. 

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @Mitchell Wachtel  @RobertUnferth Mitchell, you cannot possibly know what your many Muslim friends believe unless you ask them very specific questions. Now that you have read the Hamas Charter, give your friends that genocidal quotation by Muhammad and ask them what they think of it. That is a hadith which has been considered sacred by all religious Moslems for more than a thousand years.

 

The analogy with nasty passages from the Bible is faulty. Moslems consider the Koran to be Allah's LITERAL word, valid for all of eternity. So, the fact that it is 1400 years old is irrelevant.

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @Abdul Ameer  @RobertUnferth I tell you the truth. I know many Muslims. They do not believe things that PhoenixLaw appears to accept. In fact, it's pretty much the same stuff in the US.  If you don't believe me, try this. Visit a Mosque on Friday. You will likely be quite impressed. As for finding stuff in the Qu'ran, what do you expect from a text over 1,000 years ago? Don't you think the same kind of incongruity with the present exists with our bible? Remember the tenth commandment tells you not to envy your neighbor's slaves. Now we interpret the commandment as "thou shalt not covet", a vital guide to a productive life. One question the Rabbis posed is whether or not that could be a commandment, given that it is an emotion.  That having been said, not coveting, or at least attempting to not covet, has helped me tremendously to better enjoy my life.

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @Mitchell Wachtel  @RobertUnferth There will always be some Moslems who do not follow the doctrines of their religion in their daily lives. These might be willing to live in peaceful co-existence with Jews. How many of them are there? Nobody really knows. Virulent anti-Semitism, and Jew-hatred from cradle to grave, is rampant throught the Arab countries surrounding Israel. Nowhere have good Moslems been able to control the religious Moslems who take the Islamic sacred doctrines seriously.

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @Mitchell Wachtel  Why is that? Obviously, because he does not want you to know his true beliefs. If Moslems and leftists were to reveal their true beliefs, they would be rejected by civilized people.

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @HMarques  @Abdul Ameer One thing about these persons such as Mr. PheonixLaw (Ms. Sinema despite protests?) is that they always disappear when you begin asking them what they truly believe. Honest to heaven this is so? Why is that? 

HMarques
HMarques

 @Abdul Ameer Yes, I agree with you 100%. Accountability should be demanded on both sides of the isle.  

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @Mitchell Wachtel YOU are wrong because you are obviously ignorant about Islam.  If you can say something so preposterous like "Islam is a perfectly good faith",  despite the mountain of evidence that continues to pour in from the Moslem world, you are dangerously ignorant. You have never read the Koran or the sayings of Muhammad or any of the most respected Islamic religious authorities. I suggest you educate yourself before you make an utter fool of yourself. If reading the Koran is too much for you, then start with Robert Spencer's excellent book, "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam." And, remember, you cannot achieve wisdom merely through contemplation. You must have a basis of facts first. Only then does contemplation make sense. You obviously do not have that basis.

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @Abdul Ameer I will not further argue with you, except to tell you that you are wrong. I know dozens of Muslims. It is very easy to abuse an old religion, such as Judaism or Catholicism, by taking matters out of context of scholarly understanding within the religion. Remember what has been done with the Talmud over & over & over & over again.  I know that Islam is a perfectly good faith, one that can lead to a wonderful, productive, & happy life, just as Judaism can. This will be my last post on this forum. Good day to you. May wisdom be ever your goal, for the highest act is contemplation.

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @Mitchell Wachtel  Surely, you jest. There are many "formulations", that is, sacred Islamic texts, which attack the Jews. Just Google "Islam Jews" and see all that comes up. You will be shocked. The brute fact is that the sacred texts of Islam clearly call for war and subjugation and murder of Jews. That is why anti-Semitism is so furious and rampant throughout the Moslem world including the Moslem communities in America and Europe.

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @Abdul Ameer  @HMarques  The deprivation from the Jew the assumption of probity. There is no indication that Jews are inherently evil in the religious formulation at question. It's just a different approach.  For most people, including all Muslims I know, the road to heaven is either paved with faith, works, or some combination; for the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem &, one gathers, PhoenixLaw, the road to heaven is paved with the blood of Jews.

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @Abdul Ameer  @HMarques It is not anti-Semitism or murder. Rather is simply a desire to enact legislation that has all Jews such as myself & my family members line up against a wall before Mr. Phoenixlaw is granted the opportunity with a government issued submachine gun to blow our brains out.  Why is this? Well, there was some time ago a fellow at the US Capitol who thought a flying saucer was in the Senate Office Building library, threatening all life on earth. Naturally, that kind of emergency demands every sort of violence. Although he failed to understand that the Senate Office Building was down the street, he valiantly broke through security, shooting two guards & killing them before being stopped.  

 

Well, if it is dictated to you that you must kill all the Jews to achieve the ultimate peace on earth, it does follow that slaughtering us is the true sixth pillar of a religion of peace & that what is being done is not murder, but a killing at the request of God. That I do not believe Islam holds to these truths is irrelevant, especially when the Gran Mufti of Jerusalen believes them.  

 

Watch this video to see what I mean. It is important not to refer to their desire to have all Jews killed as murderous or against peace or anti-Semitic when to people like PhoenixLaw it is in fact the highest good.

 

They have every right in this country to demand such legislation. Kyrsten Sinema appears to be the only politician in America ready & willing to deliver, at least if PhoenixLaw is really one of Ms. Sinema's key supporters. In any case, here's the video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHEOjXsgT_k 

 

 

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @phoenixlaw Hamas has a right to do what it wishes & also to believe whatever it wishes, just as you do! They are not US citizens & are not under their law.  What has been done, you know, is simply to state that Hamas deems the killing of Jews to be a great good in the service of God.

 

The land question, well, to me it would have been best for neither Pakistan nor Israel to have been created, but one must deal the hand that is dealt to one.  If Hamas continues to bomb Israel, it will usually follow that Israel will bomb Hamas. The Gaza government would, in my opinion, be well advised to simply ensure that Gazans are better able to eat, drink, & be merry. This is greatly facilitated by not spending so much on weaponry. 

 

Pakistan killed about 3 million in Bengladesh.

 

http://chottala.blogspot.com/2010/03/chottalacom-mass-killings-in-bangladesh.html

 

Some lovely pics of service to Almighty God.

 

http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/

 

Check out the quote, quite Hamas-like, which seems to reflect your opinion, at least from all you have said. . 

 

“…… we were told to kill the hindus and Kafirs (non-believer in God). One day in June, we cordoned a village and were ordered to kill the Kafirs in that area. We found all the village women reciting from the Holy Quran, and the men holding special congregational prayers seeking God’s mercy. But they were unlucky. Our commanding officer ordered us not to waste any time.”

 

Now I have not said these people acted out of hatred. I have not criticized your belief system, except to say it is not to my liking. You & Hamas truly believe you are serving God, an admirable notion. 

 

There now. I have answered your question. Please answer mine, for we are engaged, pro-Sinema v. pro-Parker, in a pleasant discourse. 

 

Do you think the United States should criminalize disrespect for Mohammed (PBUH)?  Please let me know.

phoenixlaw
phoenixlaw

 @HMarques  @Abdul Ameer The Israelis were more than happy to accept those borders under the 1947 UN Partition Plan which created modern day Israel, though weren't they?  Also, at that time, the Israelis were guilty of as many terrorist acts as were the Palestinians in their quest to force the Arabs out of land designated as Israel.

HMarques
HMarques

 @phoenixlaw  @Abdul Ameer Even is this is true, going back to the 1967 borders is a non-negotiable option that the Palestinians won't accept.  Israel cannot be guaranteed peaceful resolutions with the narrowest point between surrounding Arab nations is only 9 miles.  As Abdul Ameer stated correctly, the goal of Radical Islam is to destroy the Jews and all of Western Civilization.   Going back to the 1967 borders will be the beginning of the end of Israel.  

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @phoenixlaw  @Abdul Ameer What will you do with the brains you splatter from Jews you machine gun? Will you create reddish gray murals? Or will you simply watch roaches consume matters?

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @Abdul Ameer  @phoenixlaw A film constructed by an Egyptian Copt has led the Muslim world to demand the death of all Jews; this is not anti-Semitism, but a desire to have government slaughter Jews. Dangerous are politicians secretly holding such legal opinions, hints raise the possibility that Ms. Sinema is one. Look at Phoenixlaw, part of Ms. Sinema’s base. Our friend here, having avoided the point of the FEAR terrorist example, with 99% certainty desires a US law that would line myself & my relatives against a wall before permitting him or her to splatter our brains with machine guns. He has, with our blessed consitutional rights, the freedom to express his ideas. That others might disagree with them is another matter.

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @phoenixlaw Of course I am saying that Al Jazeera and Haaretz are unreliable. But, that is hardly news. Not only that, the Hamas leaders, like all Moslems when they speak to non-Moslems, are unreliable -- to put it euphemistically. Both the Koran and Muhammad call for war on the Jews. Are you seriously going to argue that the Hamas leaders have repudiated these commands from the Koran and Muhammad? In addition, the Hamas leaders have said time and time again that they will never recognize Israel's right to exist in any borders. And, their charter claims the same thing, and Hamas has never even discussed changing its charter. Whom do you think you are deceiving?

phoenixlaw
phoenixlaw

 @Abdul Ameer So, you are saying that Al Jazeera and also Haaretz - the largest and most widely read newspaper in Israel- are unreliable?   You are a joke.  Just because something doesn't agree with your narrow, biased viewpoint, it must not be true - even when the source is Haaretz.

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @phoenixlaw To put it mildly, your documentation is totally unreliable. The fundamental position of Hamas has always been that ALL of Israel is occupied territory and that it must be liberated by and for Islam. Hamas leaders have always refused ever to recognize Israel's right to exist in any borders.

phoenixlaw
phoenixlaw

 @Abdul Ameer ALJAZEERA, "Hamas Ready To Accept 1967 Borders"(http:// www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2008/04/2008615098393788.html)

also reported in Israeli newspaper Haaretz - Amira Hass (15 November 2008) "Hamas willing to accept Palestinian State with 1767 borders" (http:// www.haaretz.com/hasen/apages/1035414.html)

 

Both of these articles document the Palestinians willingness to accept a two-state solution with a return to the 1967 borders. In an April 2008 meeting between Hamas leader Khaled Meshal and former US President Jimmy Carter, an understanding was reached in which Hamas agreed it would accept the creation of a Palestinian state in the territory seized by Israel in 1967 and publicly offered a long-term truce with Israel if Israel agreed to return to its 1967 borders.

 

Before calling me a liar, perhaps you should know what you are talking about instead of spreading lies yourself. Everything I say can be documented. 

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @phoenixlaw Your statement that Hamas is willing to accept a two-state solution is false, and you know it.

phoenixlaw
phoenixlaw

 @Abdul Ameer Instead of calling me a liar, please point out which of my statements is false or incorrect.

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @phoenixlaw  You are a brazen liar and an apologist for anti-Semitic murderers. Hamas has always maintained that they will never recognize Israel's right to exist in any borders because this is an Islamic religious war on the Jews and every inch of Israeli territory belongs to Moslems.

phoenixlaw
phoenixlaw

 @Mitchell Wachtel  @phoenixlaw Article 17(2) of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights states: "No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property."  The right of property is also enshrined in international humanitarian law, which requires an occupying power to respect the private property of residents living in the occupied territory and prohibits confiscation or destruction of the property.  See especially, Article 46 of the Regulations Annexed to the Hague Convention on the Laws and Customs of War on Land of 1907 and Article 53 of the Fourth Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 1949.  The right of property is also enshrined in Article 3 of Israel's Basic Law:  Human Dignity and Liberty, giving id constitutional status.

 

Article 49(6) of the Fourth Geneva Convention forbids the occupying power to transfer citizens from its own territory to the occupied territory.  The establishment of settlements also violates fundamental principles of international law, which emphasizes the temporary nature of belligerent occupation.  Establishment of permanent settlements for residents of the occupying power in occupied territory is fundamentally inconsistent with this principle.

 

Israel has violated these laws and principles by building the settlements for more than 45 years.  I ask again:  are Palestinians terrorists because they fight back in any way that they can?

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @phoenixlaw America Firsters, et.al. , even after Germany had swallowed Europe, declaimed Nazi Germany to pose no threat to America. There exists on my part no opposition, no matter what I might have typed before,  to meeting/negotiating with Hamas any more than  would have existed to meeting/negotiating with Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany.

 

Saying one finds Hamas' s claims credible or that certain features of Hamas are admirable, or that many of Hamas' s territorial claims are acceptable, is similar to asserting either

 

A. one finds Imperial Japan's claims credible or that certain features of Imperial Japan are admirable or  that many of Imperial Japan's territorial claims are acceptable

 

or

 

B one finds Nazi Germany's claims credible or that certain features of Nazi Germany are admirable or that many of Nazi Germany's territorial claims are acceptable.

 

What say you?

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @phoenixlaw Unless Hamas abolishes those paragraphs, they are intent on murdering the Jews. You cannot deny that. No amount of willingness to negotiate will change that.  Consider the Nazi platform. If you think about it, points 6, 9, 10, 11, 15, 16, 21, & the first sentence of 24 are marvelous, far better in fact than anything in the Hamas Charter. Nonetheless, you would not advocate what you are suggesting for Hamas with an NSADP government unless & until they formally abolished the unsavory bits.

 

1. We demand the unification of all Germans in the Greater Germany on the basis of the right of self-determination of peoples.

 

2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in respect to the other nations; abrogation of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain.

 

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people, and colonization for our surplus population.

 

4. Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently no Jew can be a member of the race.

 

5. Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest, and must be under the authority of legislation for foreigners.

 

6. The right to determine matters concerning administration and law belongs only to the citizen. Therefore we demand that every public office, of any sort whatsoever, whether in the Reich, the county or municipality, be filled only by citizens. We combat the corrupting parliamentary economy, office-holding only according to party inclinations without consideration of character or abilities.

 

7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.

 

8. Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since the 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.

 

9. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.

 

10. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all Consequently we demand:

 

11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.

 

12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

 

13. We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

 

14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

 

15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

 

16. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

 

17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.

 

18. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, Schieber and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.

 

19. We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.

 

20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

 

21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.

 

22. We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.

 

23. We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that: a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race: b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the German language: c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications, or any influence on them, and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.

 

24. We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: common utility precedes individual utility.

 

25. For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @Mitchell Wachtel Well, it IS true! The Islamic texts say what they say, and there is no other interpretation of them. This does not mean that all Moslems go around killing Jews all the time because many Moslems just do not follow the sacred doctrines of their religion. And, by the way, Moslems slaughtered Jews on many occasions throughout history. For example, Muhammad himself set the example for Moslems to follow when he committed genocide on Jews of Arabia. Read the letter to Maimonides from the Jews in Yemen. Maimonides himself had to flee the Moslem massacres of the Jews in Spain. You think you know so many Moslems who "don't feel that way". Unless you ask them about those passages in the Koran and the Sunnah, you really don't know them at all. Ask them, and see what they say.

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @Abdul Ameer Well, that's not true.  If it were true, Muslims would have always killed the Jews, which has not happened before en masse except for very rare exceptions. I know so many Muslims, who assuredly do not feel that way, & I think the world of most of them.. I can absolutely promise you that. 

Abdul Ameer
Abdul Ameer

 @Mitchell Wachtel  I beg to disagree. It does NOT depend on how the text is interpreted because the relevant texts in the Koran and the Sunnah are, unfortunately for everyone, very clear in their commands to make war on non-Moslems. There is no other way to "interpret" them. Sinema's Moslem friends, including Phoenix Law, all believe this stuff. Here are just a few of the wicked, violently bigoted passages from the Islamic holy texts:

KORAN

1. -- Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve. (8.55)

2. -- The unbelievers are your inveterate enemy. (4: 1 01)

3. -- Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers  but  merciful to one another. (48:29).

4. -- Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. (8:40)

5. -- Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme.  (2: 193)

6. -- We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. (3: 151)

7. -- I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers. (8: 12)

8. -- Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given [i.e. Christians and Jews] ... until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. (9:29)

9. -- Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. (9:73 and 66:9)

10. -- Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. (9: 123)

 

MUHAMMAD

-- Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,

-- Muhammad said: "Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, ... ”

-- Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, '0 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' ”

 

SHARIA ISLAMIC SACRED LAW

From one of the most popular manuals of Sharia Law, Reliance of the Traveler: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law, approved by the highest Islamic religious authorities of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Egypt and America:  "JIHAD means to (make) war on non-Muslims"

 

 

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @Ishmael_137  @phoenixlaw One other point. Islam itself is neither better nor worse than any other religion, IMHO. All depends on how the text in question is interpreted. Having read the Qu'ran & Hadiths, there is abundant wisdom in Islam, sufficient to enable one to live a good & happy life. To obtain this wisdom, however, one must always keep in mind the time that a text was written & the purpose for which it was written. Otherwise, the religion becomes a justification for nefarious activity.

Mitchell Wachtel
Mitchell Wachtel

 @Ishmael_137  @phoenixlaw He or she is an attorney speaking for the benefit of Kyrsten Sinema. Note that he | she says that Hamas has not committed any attacks on US soil. Perhaps not, but Al Quaeda, to whom Hamas is linked, HAS committed attacks on US soil. More importantly, the crime family to which Ms. Sinema appears very likely to be connected, the Sheik Rahman crime family, both committed terrorists acts on US soil, specifically the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, & is connected to Al Qaeda because Sheik Rahman is closely die to the Bin Laden crime family.  One goal of a Congresswoman Sinema would very likely be the release of the head of the crime family to which she is very likely connected to Egypt. Of interest in this matter is a selective approach to civil rights. As was proper, Ms. Sinema opposed the patriot act on constitutional grounds (amendment IV, search & siezure, which Newt Gingrich also thought obnoxious), but she has not spoken out concerning the calls to abolish our first amendment freedoms by criminalizing insults to Mohammed (PBUH).  Why is this?

dleeper47
dleeper47 moderator

 @WesternFreePress  @phoenixlaw  Phoenixlaw: So Israel attacked first to win territory?  

Isn't it also "well documented" that on May 16, 1967, Nasser ordered withdrawal of UN forces on the Egypt-Israel border, and on May 22 announced a blockade of all goods to & from Israel through the Straits of Tiran?   Isn't it also "well documented" that Egypt rolled 800+ tanks up to the border with Israel; that Syria mobilized its troops and launched border clashes with Israel along the Golan heights; that mutual "defense" pacts were suddenly signed among Egypt, Jordan, and Iraq; that Nasser repeatedly called for Israel's total destruction?

Had you been Israel, outnumbered on all sides, would you have (a) waited to be shot at or (b) waited to be strangled by the blockade?   

HMarques
HMarques

It's more than the controversy about the "occupied lands" - the radical Muslims just hate the jews and all infidels with or without occupied lands to dispute over.  The terrorists attacks won't stop until Israel is wiped out and all of western civilization is ruled under Sharia, or the extremists are defeated.  God help us!!!

WesternFreePress
WesternFreePress moderator

 @phoenixlaw  @HMarques Honey is right: In the 1967 War, Israle technically fired the first shot, but the opposing armies had massed for attack and announced their intentions already.

HMarques
HMarques

Yeah, that was called a "preemptive strike" in response to the imminent threat of attack by the neighboring states of Egypt [known then as the United Arab Republic (UAR)]...Israel was protecting its people from attacks from your people (muslims).  This kind of fighting has been going on for centuries and it has not stopped.  We see this happening NOW with the current threats of  "wiping Israel off the planet" by Iran and the on going threats of violence from the radical Islam extremists who don't recognize Israel and the jewish people no more than they respect and recognize any westerner or infidel.  I don't see anywhere in the Jewish faith where there people are taught to kill non-jews, unlike the Koran.  We "Americans" are also a target. 

phoenixlaw
phoenixlaw

 @HMarques Israel did not "win" the occupied territory.  Perhaps it is you who should review your history. It is well documented that  Israel attacked Egypt to start the 1967 war.  As to the illegal settlements that are the root of today's problems, refer to the numerous UN Resolutions on the matter.  In reality, it is Israel that does not want peace, since if there was a peace accord, their theft of Palestinian land would have to end.  Israeli leaders for the last 40 years have said as much.  Get your facts straight instead of just blatting the AIPAC-Israeli lie.

HMarques
HMarques

Excuse me phoenixlaw, I think you need to review your history a little.  In 1967 a war (the 6-day war) was waged against Israel by surrounding Arab nations after Israel's neighbors (primarily the palestinians) refused any peace settlement negotiations brought to the table via the UN Assembly.  And guess what, Israel kicked ASS and defeated those who attacked and "occupied" any addtional land at that point due to "WINNING" the war.  That's what happens when you go to war and win.  The attacks have never stopped since then.  And it looks like the Arab world wants to go to war with Israel yet again.  Israel has done nothing but offer peaceful resolutions since the state of Israel was established in 1948 by the UN General Assembly in agreement with other governments.  The "palestinians" and its militant terrorists group Hamas wants nothing to do with peace, all they decry is destruction of Israel.  Israel has only defending their right to exists, defending their people by terrorists attacks by Hamas and Hezbolah, etc....